Teng Ly at her home in Kampot Written by The Phnom Penh Post
Teng Ly doesn't know exactly when she was born but imagines she is "about the same age as King Sihanouk." An illiterate truffle farmer who has lived in Kampot province all her life, Ly appears an unlikely candidate for the position of high-level negotiator between the Khmer Rouge and the government. Yet throughout the 1990s it was Ly who stepped in at crucial moments to mediate between the warring factions because "all soldiers are just boys really and I wanted them to go home to their villages and stop killing each other." When Khmer Rouge troops ambushed a Sihanoukville-bound train in July 1994 and took three Western backpackers hostage it was Ly who trekked through the jungle for days-"I was young and strong then" she says with a cackle of laughter-to ask Khmer Rouge commander Chhouk Rin to let them go. The three-Australian David Wilson, Briton Mark Slater and French man Jean-Michel Braquet -were executed in Phnom Voar in September or October of 1994. Khmer Rouge commanders Nuon Paet and Sam Bit were later convicted for the attack, as was Chhouk Rin."I very much regret what happened," Ly says. "Every time I go to the pagoda I pray for the dead hostages." Ly's face is as gnarled as tree bark and the years have twisted her spine into a perfect right angle, but her memory is still sharp. "I am very happy to talk to you as no one has ever asked me about my experiences," she said as she settled herself into a comfortable nook in the roots of a giant tamarind tree on her farm near Phnom Voar mountain and told the Post's Cat Barton and Vong Sokheng her story.
How did you start negotiating between the government and the Khmer Rouge?
I have lived here for my whole life, my family has always lived here by the mountain, farming. I used to work in the forests where the Khmer Rouge lived. I collect truffles. I used to trade some of them with the Khmer Rouge. When I used to work in the forest the Khmer Rouge used to help me, they would cut down some trees to help me find my truffles and they would help me sell them. At the time, no one could get into the Khmer Rouge controlled areas but as I had lived here all my life, I could. I knew many of the Khmer Rouge soldiers and they trusted me-they don't trust anyone, they think people are all spies, but they trusted me.
What happened when the Khmer Rouge captured three Western hostages?
When they attacked the train and the three backpackers went missing, the government came to see me and asked me to go and check on them and find out if they were still alive. The government soldiers were trying to get the backpackers out of the Khmer Rouge area-they asked me to help and said if I could save them then they would look after me. I tried very hard but the situation moved too fast and in the end I couldn't help them.
What happened?
The first place they were held was in the area controlled by the Khmer Rouge commander Chhouk Rin. I went to meet him-he had the three backpackers there. The backpackers asked me to buy them bananas and sweets. I went home and got the things they wanted and then I went back but they had gone. Chhouk Rin told me that [Khmer Rouge commander] Noun Paet had taken the three backpackers away to the area that he controlled. I followed them to Nuon Paet's area to give them the bananas and sweets they wanted.
What happened when you met them again?
It was night when I got there and I couldn't come home immediately so I stayed there. I looked for the Australian hostage, he explained who he was-but in mime as we don't speak the same language-and I told him that I would come back in three days. The three backpackers were happy to hear this-they asked me to buy them flip flops, blankets and medicine. The Australian gave me a photograph of him. Later, in 2002 Chhouk Rin came and asked me to take the photographs I had from the backpacker to the court. The parents of the Australian hostage had come to Cambodia. I showed them the photograph he had given me. They recognized him and then they really began to cry.
Did you see the backpackers again in Nuon Paet's area?
When I went back again to see them after three days, the three guys had disappeared. I was told that Sam Bit had come to take them away to his area. By then, the situation was very tense, very serious. I couldn't go to Sam Bit's area. I couldn't go back to give the backpackers what they wanted me to get for them, and then the government started to attack the area, they started to bomb Sam Bit's area.
Were the hostages well looked after when they were with Chhouk Rin?
When they lived with Chhouk Rin and Ta Paet they had the freedom to walk around and hide from the bombs. They were very stupid- if they were Cambodian they would have run away then.
Teng Ly doesn't know exactly when she was born but imagines she is "about the same age as King Sihanouk." An illiterate truffle farmer who has lived in Kampot province all her life, Ly appears an unlikely candidate for the position of high-level negotiator between the Khmer Rouge and the government. Yet throughout the 1990s it was Ly who stepped in at crucial moments to mediate between the warring factions because "all soldiers are just boys really and I wanted them to go home to their villages and stop killing each other." When Khmer Rouge troops ambushed a Sihanoukville-bound train in July 1994 and took three Western backpackers hostage it was Ly who trekked through the jungle for days-"I was young and strong then" she says with a cackle of laughter-to ask Khmer Rouge commander Chhouk Rin to let them go. The three-Australian David Wilson, Briton Mark Slater and French man Jean-Michel Braquet -were executed in Phnom Voar in September or October of 1994. Khmer Rouge commanders Nuon Paet and Sam Bit were later convicted for the attack, as was Chhouk Rin."I very much regret what happened," Ly says. "Every time I go to the pagoda I pray for the dead hostages." Ly's face is as gnarled as tree bark and the years have twisted her spine into a perfect right angle, but her memory is still sharp. "I am very happy to talk to you as no one has ever asked me about my experiences," she said as she settled herself into a comfortable nook in the roots of a giant tamarind tree on her farm near Phnom Voar mountain and told the Post's Cat Barton and Vong Sokheng her story.
How did you start negotiating between the government and the Khmer Rouge?
I have lived here for my whole life, my family has always lived here by the mountain, farming. I used to work in the forests where the Khmer Rouge lived. I collect truffles. I used to trade some of them with the Khmer Rouge. When I used to work in the forest the Khmer Rouge used to help me, they would cut down some trees to help me find my truffles and they would help me sell them. At the time, no one could get into the Khmer Rouge controlled areas but as I had lived here all my life, I could. I knew many of the Khmer Rouge soldiers and they trusted me-they don't trust anyone, they think people are all spies, but they trusted me.
What happened when the Khmer Rouge captured three Western hostages?
When they attacked the train and the three backpackers went missing, the government came to see me and asked me to go and check on them and find out if they were still alive. The government soldiers were trying to get the backpackers out of the Khmer Rouge area-they asked me to help and said if I could save them then they would look after me. I tried very hard but the situation moved too fast and in the end I couldn't help them.
What happened?
The first place they were held was in the area controlled by the Khmer Rouge commander Chhouk Rin. I went to meet him-he had the three backpackers there. The backpackers asked me to buy them bananas and sweets. I went home and got the things they wanted and then I went back but they had gone. Chhouk Rin told me that [Khmer Rouge commander] Noun Paet had taken the three backpackers away to the area that he controlled. I followed them to Nuon Paet's area to give them the bananas and sweets they wanted.
What happened when you met them again?
It was night when I got there and I couldn't come home immediately so I stayed there. I looked for the Australian hostage, he explained who he was-but in mime as we don't speak the same language-and I told him that I would come back in three days. The three backpackers were happy to hear this-they asked me to buy them flip flops, blankets and medicine. The Australian gave me a photograph of him. Later, in 2002 Chhouk Rin came and asked me to take the photographs I had from the backpacker to the court. The parents of the Australian hostage had come to Cambodia. I showed them the photograph he had given me. They recognized him and then they really began to cry.
Did you see the backpackers again in Nuon Paet's area?
When I went back again to see them after three days, the three guys had disappeared. I was told that Sam Bit had come to take them away to his area. By then, the situation was very tense, very serious. I couldn't go to Sam Bit's area. I couldn't go back to give the backpackers what they wanted me to get for them, and then the government started to attack the area, they started to bomb Sam Bit's area.
Were the hostages well looked after when they were with Chhouk Rin?
When they lived with Chhouk Rin and Ta Paet they had the freedom to walk around and hide from the bombs. They were very stupid- if they were Cambodian they would have run away then.
Why did you help with the defections?
I want peace. I am an old woman and I don't need anything more. I just want peace for my country and for my grandchildren. I like to go to the pagoda, I want to do some good deeds for my country. I saw how hard it was for my people, the people in my village, because of the Khmer Rouge. They could not farm their rice fields -they could start to farm, but they would always have to abandon the rice when the fighting came.
How did you try to create peace?
When they were fighting each other, killing each other, I used to try and stop it. When I saw the Khmer Rouge, I would say 'Go! The government troops are in the area' and when I saw the government troops I would say 'Go! The Khmer Rouge is in the area' and so I would manage to keep them away from each other. I just wanted to stop them killing each other. And this made all the soldiers think of me like a grandmother.
What was Chhouk Rin like?
When I first met Chhouk Rin I was in the forest trying to farm. His daughter was with him then and she cried as she wanted to leave the jungle and come with me. So I took her with me-I got her into government territory. She was eight years old then, and actually today she is getting married.
Did the Khmer Rouge want to defect?
The Khmer Rouge wanted to defect to the government but they were scared-they thought they would not be safe, but I promised them they would be ok.
What do you think of the Khmer Rouge Trial in Phnom Penh which has arrested five Khmer Rouge leaders - Duch, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary and his wife Ieng Thirith and Khieu Samphan.?
When they were fighting each other, killing each other, I used to try and stop it. When I saw the Khmer Rouge, I would say 'Go! The government troops are in the area' and when I saw the government troops I would say 'Go! The Khmer Rouge is in the area' and so I would manage to keep them away from each other. I just wanted to stop them killing each other. And this made all the soldiers think of me like a grandmother.
What was Chhouk Rin like?
When I first met Chhouk Rin I was in the forest trying to farm. His daughter was with him then and she cried as she wanted to leave the jungle and come with me. So I took her with me-I got her into government territory. She was eight years old then, and actually today she is getting married.
Did the Khmer Rouge want to defect?
The Khmer Rouge wanted to defect to the government but they were scared-they thought they would not be safe, but I promised them they would be ok.
What do you think of the Khmer Rouge Trial in Phnom Penh which has arrested five Khmer Rouge leaders - Duch, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary and his wife Ieng Thirith and Khieu Samphan.?
I have heard of the names but I don't know who they are. Who is Nuon Chea? Do you mean Nuon Paet? I don't know. I am an uneducated person, but maybe this was my good luck. I survived.
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