TRACEY SHELTON; The Extraordinary Chamber’s Co-Investigating Judge Marcel Lemonde at an outreach event in Pailin in January this year. The Phnom Penh Post
Written by Georgia Wilkins
Friday, 19 September 2008
Extraordinary Chamber Judge Marcel Lemonde explains why he became involved in trying to bring former KR to justice
How did you come to be a judge at a Cambodian war crimes tribunal?
I have been a judge in France for 30 years, specialising in criminal law matters. For a long time now, I have been particularly interested in comparative law and in the development of international criminal justice. Moreover, I was deputy director of the National School of Magistracy for five years and, in that capacity, I had the opportunity to visit numerous countries, to study their judicial systems and to receive visits of judges from throughout the world. It was in that context that I came to Cambodia in 2002. I visited the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum, which left a strong impression on me. I became interested in finding out more about the country and its history and began reading on the subject. When one immerses oneself in the history of Cambodia, indifference is impossible. A number of months later, the agreement creating the tribunal was signed: when the UN called for candidates, I quite naturally responded positively.
You used to be a police commissioner. How did this experience influence your work as a judge?
I was a police officer for five years, when I was 25 years of age. I think I was a little too undisciplined to be a good policeman! But I do not regret the detour. In the police force and in the field, I discovered the miserable and darker side of life. Indispensable experience for a judge.
How strong is your professional relationship with the Cambodian judges?
It is incorrect to assume that the international judges have nothing to learn from their national counterparts. The assistance is mutual. Without the Cambodian judges, the international judges would have great difficulty in bringing an acceptable form of justice to the Cambodian people. That does not, of course, mean that we agree on everything. Equally, it does not mean that we are unaware of the problems which the Cambodian judges must face including, for example, the absence of a minimum statutory protection for them, which would reinforce the appearance of their independence and impartiality.
What role do you believe history will play in the KRT?
It would be dangerous for a judge to consider him or herself a historian and to lose sight of the fact that a judge is here to ensure a fair trial. That said, in a context such as the present, there is clearly an interaction between the judicial and the historical: The judge will have to inform him/herself of the work of historians and the latter can in turn benefit from the trial process. The fact that entire libraries have already been written on the subject is, of itself, a difficulty as those works could be considered "pre-judgments" of current criminal proceedings. One has to take such existing works into account without at the same time letting oneself be tied to them.
What do you hope the legacy of the KRT will be?
The tribunal is, in the first place, clearly aimed at the Cambodian people. One could hope that it will allow this country to "read the page before turning it" namely, that the trial would contribute to the reconstruction of the country on healthy foundations. Beyond this, the tribunal can contribute to the reinforcement of the rule of law in Cambodia, via a durable influence on the national justice system. Moreover, I believe that the tribunal will have a beneficial influence on international criminal justice. It is the first time that civil law procedures are applied in such a context. Now, it has been my view that the common-law rules have been demonstrated to be, in certain respects, unsuited to the extreme complexity of mass crimes. So, if we manage this tribunal's procedures well, they could be a source of inspiration for other international(ised) criminal justice systems in the future.
What about your job gives you the greatest satisfaction?
I am proud that we were able to adopt the internal rules of the tribunal in nine months (shorter than other international tribunals), despite the rather unique problems we had to resolve. I am also satisfied that we were able to finish the investigation in the first case file in less than one year, which was not the simplest of exercises.
What are your greatest concerns going into the first trial?
The structure of the tribunal, being as it is the reflection of a series of compromises, is very complicated and its functioning, especially in its public trial phase, might appear problematic. Translation problems will undoubtedly contribute to this impression. Of course, it would have been far easier to have organised a "purely international" trial in The Hague or elsewhere. However, it is evident that going down that route would have had little meaning for the Cambodian people. The task we have set for ourselves is certainly complex: but I remain persuaded, on a daily basis, that it is a process certainly worth undertaking.
Written by Georgia Wilkins
Friday, 19 September 2008
Extraordinary Chamber Judge Marcel Lemonde explains why he became involved in trying to bring former KR to justice
How did you come to be a judge at a Cambodian war crimes tribunal?
I have been a judge in France for 30 years, specialising in criminal law matters. For a long time now, I have been particularly interested in comparative law and in the development of international criminal justice. Moreover, I was deputy director of the National School of Magistracy for five years and, in that capacity, I had the opportunity to visit numerous countries, to study their judicial systems and to receive visits of judges from throughout the world. It was in that context that I came to Cambodia in 2002. I visited the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum, which left a strong impression on me. I became interested in finding out more about the country and its history and began reading on the subject. When one immerses oneself in the history of Cambodia, indifference is impossible. A number of months later, the agreement creating the tribunal was signed: when the UN called for candidates, I quite naturally responded positively.
You used to be a police commissioner. How did this experience influence your work as a judge?
I was a police officer for five years, when I was 25 years of age. I think I was a little too undisciplined to be a good policeman! But I do not regret the detour. In the police force and in the field, I discovered the miserable and darker side of life. Indispensable experience for a judge.
How strong is your professional relationship with the Cambodian judges?
It is incorrect to assume that the international judges have nothing to learn from their national counterparts. The assistance is mutual. Without the Cambodian judges, the international judges would have great difficulty in bringing an acceptable form of justice to the Cambodian people. That does not, of course, mean that we agree on everything. Equally, it does not mean that we are unaware of the problems which the Cambodian judges must face including, for example, the absence of a minimum statutory protection for them, which would reinforce the appearance of their independence and impartiality.
What role do you believe history will play in the KRT?
It would be dangerous for a judge to consider him or herself a historian and to lose sight of the fact that a judge is here to ensure a fair trial. That said, in a context such as the present, there is clearly an interaction between the judicial and the historical: The judge will have to inform him/herself of the work of historians and the latter can in turn benefit from the trial process. The fact that entire libraries have already been written on the subject is, of itself, a difficulty as those works could be considered "pre-judgments" of current criminal proceedings. One has to take such existing works into account without at the same time letting oneself be tied to them.
What do you hope the legacy of the KRT will be?
The tribunal is, in the first place, clearly aimed at the Cambodian people. One could hope that it will allow this country to "read the page before turning it" namely, that the trial would contribute to the reconstruction of the country on healthy foundations. Beyond this, the tribunal can contribute to the reinforcement of the rule of law in Cambodia, via a durable influence on the national justice system. Moreover, I believe that the tribunal will have a beneficial influence on international criminal justice. It is the first time that civil law procedures are applied in such a context. Now, it has been my view that the common-law rules have been demonstrated to be, in certain respects, unsuited to the extreme complexity of mass crimes. So, if we manage this tribunal's procedures well, they could be a source of inspiration for other international(ised) criminal justice systems in the future.
What about your job gives you the greatest satisfaction?
I am proud that we were able to adopt the internal rules of the tribunal in nine months (shorter than other international tribunals), despite the rather unique problems we had to resolve. I am also satisfied that we were able to finish the investigation in the first case file in less than one year, which was not the simplest of exercises.
What are your greatest concerns going into the first trial?
The structure of the tribunal, being as it is the reflection of a series of compromises, is very complicated and its functioning, especially in its public trial phase, might appear problematic. Translation problems will undoubtedly contribute to this impression. Of course, it would have been far easier to have organised a "purely international" trial in The Hague or elsewhere. However, it is evident that going down that route would have had little meaning for the Cambodian people. The task we have set for ourselves is certainly complex: but I remain persuaded, on a daily basis, that it is a process certainly worth undertaking.
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